Talk:Anatomical terms of location

Flounder Example

I believe that the "top" of a flounder could refer to either its left or its right side is incorrect. According to https://www.koaw.org/anatomical-directionalities and other sources, the anatomical position for fish is such that the typically flat surfaces which a lay person would call "its left or its right side" would never be the "top". How could the side surfaces of the fish in anatomical position at https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5808f56fcd0f687a0363b922/1605569930028-8BIUZ8IYRGME9Y2W2FQC/Anatomical+Directionalities+of+Fishes+Fish+Ventral+Dorsal+Anterior+Posterior+Koaw+Nature.png?format=2500w possibly be described as at the "top"? It's also problematic and circular to describe "top" in terms of "left" or "right" when the purpose is to define what top, left, right, etc. are. IMO the description should be in terms of some other characteristics (such as organs located in that direction). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blaine-dev (talk • contribs) 22:11, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

For most fish, you are correct. But for flatfish, which include "flounders, soles, turbot, plaice and halibut," although they start life as bilaterally symmetric, one eye migrates to join its mate on the "up" side, staying pigmented on the upside and usually white on the down side. These fish lie on the sand on one side, always having an "up" side. "The right-eyed flounder family (Pleuronectida) have both eyes on the right side and lie on the ocean floor on their left side. The left-eyed flounder family (Bothidae) have both eyes on the left side and lie on the ocean floor on their right side." (Quoted statements from Facts and Details: Flatfish Such as Flounder and Sole https://ioa.factsanddetails.com/article/entry-217.html). Getwood (talk) 20:29, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

GA concerns

I am concerned that this article no longer meets the good article criteria due to large amounts of the text being uncited. While the GAN referenced WP:SKYBLUE, this is an essay and is thus not part of the verification policy. Furthermore, the good article criteria 2b states that content must be cited at the end of each paragraph, and there are several paragraphs and sections that do not have citations. Would anyone be interested in adding the necessary citations? @Tom (LT): as the original GA nominator. Z1720 (talk) 14:51, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

I will try but will need a month or two to do it due to time constraints at my end. I do agree with your concerns that more than just 'sky is blue' examples are now uncited. Tom (LT) (talk) 03:04, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tom (LT): If concerns are being addressed, I won't send an article to GAR. Take your time, and please ping me if there are questions or it is ready for me to take another look. Z1720 (talk) 12:58, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tom (LT): Are you still interested in working on this? Z1720 (talk) 15:33, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

Anatomical terms of location

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Result pending

Lots of uncited statements. Z1720 (talk) 03:50, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Am willing to try and fix concerns --Iztwoz (talk) 16:34, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Just wanted to say "wow" to all the work you've put in to this, @Iztwoz: You've definitely changed this for the better. I've tweaked a few things from the veterinarian's standpoint. Thanks for your dedication on this page. Getwood (talk) 00:19, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you Getwood --Iztwoz (talk) 08:14, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Bilaterianism

It's a minor quibble, but not all bilaterians are bipedal or quadrupedal. Earthworms, millipedes, snakes and fish are either pedal-less or have some other variation. I'm wondering about something like "The meaning of terms that are used vary depending on the type of symmetry (bilaterian or non-bilaterian as well as the standard anatomical position (e.g.: bipedal, quadrupedal, etc.). I would vote for deleting the second sentence. Getwood (talk) 21:28, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

'-ad' and '-ally'

I think it's important that words like distad, proximad, etc. are used correctly as adverbs, meaning (obviously, but worth repeating) they need to modify a verb. And, they are interchangeable with -ally words. So distad = distally. Most of the textbooks cited have numerous occurences of "proximally" and "distally," but do not use "proximad" or "distad." (Gray's, Dyce, Kardong) To me, this form is a relic from when academics thought English should sound more Latin. These forms are still commonly used enough, so worth keeping, but shouldn't be emphasized over the more commonly used and easily understood equivalents. The main exception that makes sense to me is "orad," since this unambiguously means "towards the mouth" where "orally" more commonly means "taken by mouth."

Being adverbs these terms are used for two purposes: a) to describe physiological movement like blood flow or nerve conduction: "arterial blood flows distad/distally", or b) when used in a descriptive sentence such as "the biceps brachii originates proximad/proximally on the scapula and terminates distad/distally on the radius." In both cases, the term modifies a verb "flows distally" and "originates proximally," not a location like "distad of the femur," which appears to modify 'femur', bending it into adjective territory.

Here are my suggested changes (bold only for emphasis of changes): "-ad (from Latin ad 'towards'), equivalent to '-ally',used as is a suffix createsing the adverb form to indicate that something moves towards (-ad) something else. For example, "distad" means "in the distal direction," as in "arterial blood flows distad/distally.", and "distad of the femur" means "beyond the femur in the distal direction". Further examples may include cephalad (towards the cephalic end), orad, craniad, and proximad. The terms "proximally" and "distally" are in more common use in most anatomic textbooks than "proximad" or "distad." could cite Dyce, Gray here. Getwood (talk) 16:52, 25 March 2025 (UTC)